Podcast 50 - Vitamin C Injections


Dr. Chad: This is Dr. Chad Edwards and you’re listening to podcast number 50 of Against the Grain.

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Male: Welcome to Against the Grain podcast, with Dr. Chad Edwards, where he challenges the status quo when it comes to medicine. We get into hot topics in the medical field with real stories from real patients to help you on your way to a healthy lifestyle. Get ready, because we are about to go Against the Grain.

Marshall Morris: Hello, hello. This is the super tall Marshall Morris and today I am joined by Dr. Chad Edwards who believes that 80% of medical recommendations are crap, technically speaking here. He is the author of Revolutionize your Health with Customized Supplements, he’s served in the US Army, he’s a board certified physician and the founder of revolutionhealth.org. Dr. Edwards, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Dr. Chad: This is episode 50.

Marshall: 50, five, zero.

Dr. Chad: The big five, zero, half a century right here.

Marshall: We’re getting into it. Real quick, looking back over the first 50 episodes, how do you feel?

Dr. Chad: I feel awesome. I’m really excited about the content that we’ve got. I think there are some really good information. I’m able to start sending patients to the podcast and saying, “You know what? I’m drawing on for 20 minutes about topic X,” and it’s what I end up telling my patients time and time again. It’s really been beneficial in that regard and it’s our perspective and it gives an overview. There’s just been a smattering of a bunch of different things over the last 50 episode. Hopefully the next 50 will be even better. It’s been a learning process and a learning curve, and doing podcasts and what can we do to be beneficial. I’m just thankful to everyone that’s listened so far and the feedback that we’ve gotten, and ready to rock on the 50th topic Tulsa prolotherapy.

Marshall: Okay, so let’s get into it. What is the hot topic today?

Dr. Chad: Today we’re going to talk about Vitamin C. Specifically I’m going to talk about parenteral Vitamin C, meaning, Vitamin C injections. The Vitamin C itself, it’s an amazing nutrient that has a lot of virusital, meaning it kills viruses properties, immune supportive properties, it got a lot of fantastic stuff. There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence out there about patients saying, “Well, I’m taking Vitamin C so I don’t get sick,” or something like that. As a traditional physician, when I was doing traditional medicine, patients would come in and say, “Would you recommend Vitamin C?” And I’d say, “Well, there’s no harm in doing Vitamin C, except for that if you take enough of it, you’re going to start getting diarrhoea.”

The reason for that is because you have these channels or these absorption pumps that basically accept the Vitamin C and get into your system. You can saturate those things so that they’re only going to take in 10 units or whatever Tulsa prolotherapy.

Marshall: This is going to pass through everything else?

Dr. Chad: Exactly. Then you have all these substance, this stuff, which is very sticky and kind of sweet tasting that’s in your guts and your intestines are going to try and level out. It’s an osmotically active substance, so it’s going to try and pull fluid into your gut, which is what causes the diarrhoea. You can only absorb so much orally. Giving it intravenous or even intramuscular on the other hand, bypasses that entire absorption mechanism, and so we can get much, much, much higher doses. I don’t have the numbers off the top of my head, but I went to a conference one time, where they showed if you take like a thousand units or a thousand milligrams of Vitamin C, or 250 milligrams of Vitamin C, then you get whatever your measurable amount, one unit of Vitamin C in your blood.

If you take 10 times that, 2500 milligrams, then it goes from one to one point two. It’s this infinitesimally small-

Marshall: It’s a law diminishing returns?

Dr. Chad: Exactly. But with one single dose of intravenous Vitamin C, it went up 80 fold, something ridiculous like that. This is one of those topics that it can be very controversial and it’s against the grain to say that Vitamin C can be effective for certain things, but yet no one has really given intravenously or even intramuscularly. We’re going to talk about some of the data behind this and this all comes from a presentation that was done by Dr. Levy and he is a physician and an attorney, and he’s done a lot of research on Vitamin C and presented. It was almost a rapid fire succession on the data. What we’re going to do here and we’re just going to talk about why Vitamin C and what has it done, and why should you consider getting it. I recommend it intravenous. We can give it, it’s very safe, it’s very effective and all of this kinds of good things.

Starting off this podcast, I want to read a quote by William Thomas from 1873. He said, “Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted under any circumstances, to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error.” I just thought that that was very interesting as we get into the thick of this on Vitamin C. Basically, we’re going against the grain on mainstream dogma and we’re trying to correct some of these errors. I thought that was an interesting way to start off with this. One of the hardest hitting things that I saw when I started looking into Vitamin C is that — and I’m going to use the word ‘cure’, I’m not saying that Vitamin C cures, I’m not saying people come into my clinic and we’re going to cure your X. I’m not saying that, let me be clear.

I am talking about what has been reported in the literature. Okay, these are not my words, these are someone else’s words. The first thing was a paper published by Klenner in 1949 and Vitamin C, and he used intramuscular Vitamin C cured.

Marshall: What does that mean, intramuscular?

Dr. Chad: Giving an injection into the muscle, like the butt muscle, or the thigh muscle Tulsa prolotherapy.

Marshall: Like a needle into the muscle?

Dr. Chad: That’s correct. Like you go when you get your flu shot, or something like that. He cured polio, in 1949 in 60 out of 60 cases. Now, the important thing to understand here is, 15 of these cases were confirmed polio cases by lumbar puncture, which is one of the things that they do at the time. Within a very short period of time, they were cured, a full account is available in a paper published by Robert Landwehr L-A-N-D-W-E-H-R, and the paper is called The Origin of the 42-year Stonewall of Vitamin C. This was published in the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, Volume 6, Number 2, 1991.

Marshall: He’s saying that the study that they published is saying that 60 out of 60 cases?

Dr. Chad: That’s correct.

Marshall: That’s a pretty high percentage.

Dr. Chad: Yes, that’s a hundred percent. That’s exactly right. I’ll just read part of this. The following schedules of these injections, after this time the fever was consistently down and that was after 24 hours after they’d started therapy. After this time the fever was consistently down, the drug was given 1000 to 2000 milligrams, every six hours for the next 48 hours. All patients were clinically well after 72 hours, three days. After three patients had a relapse, the drug was continued for at least 48 hours longer, 1000 to 2000 milligrams every eight to 12 hours, where spinal taps where performed. It was the rule to find the reversion of the fluid to normal after the second day of treatment. We’re talking two to three days.

Marshall: Three days and then anybody that relapsed, they did it for another two days, so total of five days, they are saying that they cured the disease?

Dr. Chad: That’s exactly right. He presented at the American Medical Association in the ’40s, somewhere in there, it didn’t get much publicity. I don’t know why, but the data is here. He has a full accounting of every patient, and what he did, and how they did it, and the diagnosis and the whole bit. It is a legitimate accounting of exactly what he did. It’s not a randomized placebo-controlled double-blinded study, because it didn’t give placebo to half the group of polio patients and then Vitamin C to the other half. But 60 out of 60 is quite impressive. Certainly, just watching the polio patient didn’t help, rather else they would have done that. In another study also published by Klenner, Vitamin C cured advanced polio and its flaccid paralysis. It’s a major virus, that was in 1951 Tulsa prolotherapy.

If I remember it right, I’ll get the links in the show notes, for this 42-year Stonewall of Vitamin C and again it gives a full accounting. Acute hepatitis is another problem and in 1962 Dalton reported that vitamin C cured acute hepatitis, it was also reported by Cathcart in 1981 and Orrans in 1983. They were saying that they cured acute hepatitis. In 1951, Klenner reported that he cured cases of viral encephalitis presenting in coma. Encephalitis is an inflammation of the brain caused by a virus and he was able to resolve that with vitamin C. in 1950, Masel reported that they cured acute rheumatic fever. Rheumatic fever is an inflammation, it’s an inflammatory process and we call it vegetation.

It’s a growth on one of the heart valves in response to a streptococcal infection, so a strep throat, those kinds of things. It can cause an inflammatory response that you get these vegetation to grow on the heart. He was able to resolve that in 1950 according to that report. Vitamin C and other are antioxidants such as alpha lipoic acid and in acetylcysteine according to the statements, have cured toxic mushroom poisoning which is one of the worst poisonings you can endure it is horrible and brutal. This was reported by Laing, L-A-I-N-G in 1984, by Berkson in 1979 and Montenene in 1999. Three different reports on toxic mushroom poisoning resolved by vitamin C and other antioxidants.

Two cases of chronic infectious mononucleosis were cured in three days. Two cases of chronic West Nile virus work were completely well in three days, one was so sick they thought they had hepatitis. West Nile virus, acute hepatitis, rheumatic fever, toxic mushroom poisoning and all of these things are treated by vitamin C according to these reports. Again, to be clear, these are not my words, this is what was reported by Dr. Levy. Haemorrhagic dengue fever, so dengue is spelled D-E-N-G-U-E. It’s a virus spread by a mosquito, we see it a lot in Central America. They call it break bone fever because of the pain that you can get associated with that. There was a little girl in South America that they said was cured by vitamin C.

In 2008 Mikirova, M-I-K-I-R-O-V-A said that vitamin C exerts anti-cancer activity both in the test tube and in the body. You can see it in a Petri dish and you can see it in the human body that there is some anti-cancer benefits. There was in 2006 a report of three cases showing vitamin C to be very effective cancer therapy. I’ve not yet seen it but there’s a documentary, The Truth About Cancer where they talk about all kinds of that issues with cancer in the pharmaceutical industry and all those kinds of things. In 2004, seven advanced cancer cases were successfully treated with IV vitamin C. Let me be clear, that I have numerous patients in my practice that have been treated with vitamin C that did not get their cancer cured Tulsa prolotherapy.

You can’t make a blanket statement but this is a potential therapy for some people. Higher plasma levels of vitamin C are inversely associated with gastric cancer risk and that was reported by Jenab, J-E-N-A-B in 2006. There’s a lot of names-

Marshall: It’s a lot of names and numbers. I’ve been keeping track though.

Dr. Chad: Good, that’s a good thing. There’s just a lot of data and I can say it but it doesn’t mean anything if I can’t back it up. These are the reports, this is the data. It’s important when you’re making some of these claims that, “Here’s the data and it’s not me making these claims, I’m just discussing what’s been reported.” The highest levels of vitamin C have the least mortality from heart disease cancer and all other causes. In almost 20,000 patients, the risk of dying in the top 20% was half of those in the bottom 20%. Higher vitamin C levels made a big difference in all-cause mortality, that was reported in 2000 and 2001 by two different pro writers.

High plasma Vitamin C levels are associated with a lower risk of coronary artery disease independent of classical risk factors, and that was reported in 2006. Dr. Levy mentioned that coronary artery disease may actually be what’s called a focal scurvy. Scurvy is Vitamin C deficiency. Cardiovascular disease being inflammatory and those kinds of things, he was saying that that’s actually a Vitamin C deficiency in that area. The Vitamin C were present in sufficient amounts that that wouldn’t happen. I can’t make a statement on that one way or another, I don’t know that, but that’s what Dr. Levy has said.

They said that dental toxicity consumers antioxidants at an incredibly high rate and deposits toxins bacteria directly into the bloodstream. Higher plasma Vitamin C levels are inversely associated with the development of diabetes. That was reported in 2000. The interesting thing to me is we talked about this issue of risks and benefits, and we talked about this in multiple podcast and many traditional Western medicine docs need a randomized placebo-controlled double-blinded study. They’ll say, “Well, what’s the benefit? Where’s the proof?” I say, “Where’s the proof of harm?” Then if there’s no proof of harm or if there’s no risk of harm. I should say not proof, if there’s no risk of harm, then why not consider it?

It doesn’t need to be proven to me to work because I don’t care if it’s one of a million, if somebody gets better with it and it’s not going to harm them, then why not? Why not? We have a responsibility to our patients. The interesting thing is that Vitamin C has really no known toxicity. When patients come in to the hospital or into the clinic or whatever, I can give them too much fluid. Plain old not water because you don’t give water IV, but we can give them normal saline, the same concentration is what’s in our in our blood. I can give them too much water and do a volume overload of fluid overload Tulsa prolotherapy.

There is a toxicity to water, there’s a condition called psychogenic polydipsia where you drink too much water and it can flush out your electrolytes. Well, if you drink too much water for a reason, it can flush out your electrolytes. We’ll often see it and endurance athletes, I saw it in the military where you get these and military guys are out and they’re not eating appropriately, they don’t get enough electrolytes, they drink, drink, drink, drink, drink and just dilute out all of your electrolytes. Water can be toxic and you can have water toxicity. With Vitamin C, there is no evidence that that occurs. There is no reported levels of toxicity. They’re saying the vitamin C intravenous is safer than water. In 2002, Jackson stated that Vitamin C had no known toxic dose in patients without pre-existing kidney disease or kidney damage. We do have to be a little bit careful in some patients with kidneys.

There was a Harvard prospective health professions study follow up the intake of high doses of vitamin C does not increase the risk of calcium oxalate kidney stones. The members of the group of the highest Vitamin C intake had the lowest risk of kidney stones than compared to those with the lowest in take. That was published and reported in 1997. Continuous vitamin C infusions of 50 grams daily, 50 grams is a fair amount over eight weeks in terminal cancer patients had no definable negative side effects. That was reported in 2001. We’re talking about something that seems to be very safe with no reported toxicity and a lot of potential benefit.

One of the statements by Dr. Levy and this is a pretty inflammatory statement, but I thought it was very interesting and I think many of our patients may resonate with this. I don’t mean to be inflammatory but it’s simply what I’ve seen. In his statement he’s an MD physician and he’s an attorney. He said the modern medicine through the popular press, through the scientific literature, they just lie. They lie and they misrepresent and they withhold the truth. That is a shocking statement. There’re study after study after study that I can present here.

There are some videos, one was a 2020 episode from New Zealand where a guy had swine flu, and this was in 2009. He was so sick he ended up on ECMO, which is Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation. Where basically heart-lung bypass. He couldn’t even do a ventilator. He had no airspace in his lungs, his lungs were completely whited out and then because of inflammation. He’s on this ECMO and the family requested that they try high dose IV vitamin C. The hospital said no initially and this is all documented in 2020 episode.

Now they were actually going to pull the plug, the hospital was going to pull the plug. The family finally got them to give him a single dose of high dose IV vitamin C. My thought is, “What are you going to kill him? Why not?” They were refusing to do this therapy that they would rather just pull the plug and let the guy die than they would to just try a therapy that had in their minds had any proven benefit. Who cares, what? Are going to kill him? It’s asinine to me, this is the crap that we talk about, “Why not?” The long story on the show is the guy ended up being discharged from the hospital, he was off the venerator two weeks after he started getting IV vitamin C.

The hospital felt that it was coincidental and they said that it could have been circumstantial. They even used the analogy of it could have had as much to do with the bus driving by out front of the hospital as they did with vitamin C. Well, you can’t disapprove that statement but give me a freaking break, are you kidding? You are telling me that the traffic in front of the hospital had as much to do with the guy getting better as the vitamin C that they were refusing to give? It’s just unwillingness to accept the possibility that maybe that saved that guys life.

Again, we can’t say that it did, but you sure can’t say it didn’t. This is the nonsense that we hear. That particular case went up through the courts and was fought legally. The guy ended up being discharged and he’s fully functional flying air planes and all of those kinds, it’s quite impressive. Linus Pauling was instrumental in a lot of vitamin C, he won Noble prize. He said, “Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians miss lead you. Find out what the facts are and make you own decisions about how to lead a happy life and how to work for a better world.” I thought that was interesting.

There’s just so much information about vitamin C and I can draw on and on, and on, and on, and on, and I know we’re going to run out of time. Vitamin C is incredibly effective, it has lots of evidence that’s it’s very beneficial. There aren’t tones randomized placebo-controlled double-blinded studies, but it’ one of those things that we’ve seen a lot benefits for our patients, getting IV vitamin C. Something that’s very safe and potentially very effective. Many patients feel so much better after getting one of this IVs. It can help with acute illness. We’ve seen reports where it’s helped with hepatitis and many of these viruses. Some patients reported improvement in cancers, and why not?

Certainly if you have cancer and you have an oncologist, you certainly want to be open and up front. If there’s anything that we’re doing that is going to interfere with their therapy, I never want step on those toes, those kinds of things. We would want to work with them and not against them. That’s what we do. If you have some of these conditions, you think that IV vitamin C may be beneficial for you, it’s certainly something that I would consider. I’ve done it for myself and my staff when they have had acute illness, and again why not? Many times it helps quite a bit. I know we flew right through the break and flew right through several things.

Marshall: This is awesome, because it’s such a big — show me the risk of the harm that’s going to be done.

Dr. Chad: Exactly.

Marshall: If there is no risk of harm, this is a viable option. We see that time and time and again with the treatments that yourself, your clinic, other functional medicine doctors are offering. It’s worth at least a question to your physician.

Dr. Chad: Absolutely, and if they don’t know how to do it and that’s fine. That I certainly don’t know everything in medicine far from it, but I’m open. If I don’t do something or maybe I disagree with something, that’s okay. The patient and I don’t have to agree on everything, but let me help them get they think my help them. At the end of the day it’s the patient that matters, not the doctor’s opinion. The patient is the one that has to live with whatever. With the intervention they did get or the intervention they refused. The patient is the one that has to live with that consequence.

What we see time and time again is that what I’ve seen in some of my colleagues, not all of them, and I hear from patients time and time again. Is that the doctor will actually get mad at them when they don’t just get in line and do what they say they should do. Why? It makes no sense. The patient’s the one that has to live with it. It’s noncompliance based on that doctor’s opinion. Okay, I’ve done my job in educating or doctor translates loosely a teacher.” I’m supposed to educate them, I’m supposed to let them know, “Here’s my education, he’s my understanding, here’s my experience, this is what I think.” If they don’t do that then that’s on them.

Some of it may have to do with the medical legal and my risk of getting sued and all of those kinds of things. My responsibility is to the patient, to the best I can to treat them and not every patient. I’ve got multiple patients. that I’ve got one right now that has cancer and she told me she is not going to accept chemotherapy and those kinds of things. That’s her choice, I did not guide her in that, and I’m not a chemotherapy expert. I don’t make those decisions for them. When they come to me and say, “I don’t want that,” then what other options are there and how can I help you? Then some patients will want to just gracefully accept their fate and that’s their right. They have the right to choose that.

Vitamin C is one of those things that whether it’s acute illness or cancer, or whatever, I do not profess to my patients that we are going to cure them. That I’m going to resolve their issues, but this is a valid viable therapy that may provide some benefits for them and without significant risk of harm, so why not?

Marshall: Boom. Dr. Edwards’s episode 50 with some passion, with some gusto.

Dr. Chad: Yes, I figured we needed something for a number 50.

Marshall: There is it, well we are 50 into this thing. I’m excited for 50 and beyond more. With you here and I’m looking forward to it so. I appreciate you today and until the next time.

Dr. Chad: Thanks so much appreciation Marshall, talk to you later.

Male: Thanks for listening to this week’s Podcast with Dr. Chad Edwards. Tune in next week, where we’ll be going Against the Grain.

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